LCSmithMan_November_10_w_new_ads

*AD#1 LC smith speciality grade 12 gage-s/n re69920 made 1924 specifications- 30 inch nitro steel barrels, mirror bores, chokes F-F ,auto ejectors 98% blueing- 2 ivory beads-3 position safety-2 ¾ inch chambers, beavertail forearm ,50% cas color- 100% engraving, 2 triggers-1/2 pistol grip- recoil pad xlnt con 14-1/2 inch L.O.P-figured high grade walnut with 100% checkering-100% high gloss finish heel drop 2 inches comb drop 1 ½ inches
Price $3000.00

*AD#2 L.C. Smith Specialty grade S/N Re220326 Made 1918
30" Nitro steel brls.-2 3/4 inch chambers-mirror bores-chokes f & f-auto ejectors-100% blueing-1 chrome bead-3 position safety-100% case colors-
100% engravings-butt plate-double triggers-L.O.P 14 1/8 inches-pistol grip w. cap-beaver tail forearm-heel drop 2 1/4 inches comb drop 1 3/8 inches-100% checkering-beautiful English walnut 100%-high gloss finish 100%- Same original owner as are listed on grade 3E a full Freddy Brunner Restoration
Price $4,000.00

*AD#3
L.C.SMITH 2O gage Field Grade ser#FW157447 made 1937 all original one owner 90+%condition,very little use and lots of TLC in its sweet high all original condition.
Due to exceptional high demand these sweet 2O gage L.C.SMITHS are Extremely rare in original high condition. Acknowledged for their side lock design, the rotary bolting system, many other innovations The highest quality in materials and master gunsmithing which earned the L.C.SMITH the reputation of Americas Finest made double gun surpassing other American and foreign makers which included the highly touted English Purdey and the American Parkers In comparison it is still true with todays modern guns.
Specifications
L.C.SMITH 2O gage Field Grade ser#fw157447 made1937 Featherwt.-26in.armor steel barrels-mirror bores-2&3/4in.chambers Extractors-chokes Mod-Imp.Mod.-single sighting plane rib-99 bluing on brass sight bead-splinter forearm-auto safety-90+%case colors two triggers-full pistol grip with cap-L.O.P.14&1/4in.-buttplate¬Heel drop2&3/4in.Comb dropl&5/8in.-English walnut stock-checker& finish 95%+ all original. A one owner all original L.C. SMITH
Price $3500

*AD#4 L.C. Smith Grade 00-12 gage sin R47259 made 1899
32 inch armor steel barrels-extractors-2 3/4 inch chambers-chokes F-F-Mirror bores-98% blueing-1-brass bead-3 position safety-splinter forearm-50 % case colors-double triggers-L.O.P. 14 3/4 inches-recoil pad-1/2 pistol grip-heel drop 2 3/4 inches-comb drop 1 5/8 inches-pre 1913 grades English walnut-Wood & finish 95%-this was L.C. Smiths lowest priced hammerless gun at $37.00 in 1898-made 1898-1912 all of the same high qualities of materials & gunsmithing were used as the L.C. Smiths were the same mechanically in all grades. This plain no frills gun exceeded all other makers in higher grades then as it also does today. Its only 110 years young and going on its second 112 years.
Price $1,250.00

*AD#5 L.C. Smith Fieldgrade 20 Gage Made 1947 SIN FWS 11449 Very scarce and in high demand due to its high quality & design the L.C.
Smith 20 gage guns have exceeded all of the other gages in popularity. Field grade 20 gage-26 inch barrels-armor steel-mirror bores-extractors-chokes M¬F-feather wt.-99% bluing-1 brass bead-singles sighting plane rib-auto safety-2 34 inch chambers-splinter forearm-double triggers-0 case color, has been polished out to a pleasant silvery grey color- 14 1/8 inch L.O.P.- buttplate-pistol grip w/cap-heel drop 2 34 inches-comb drop 1 5/8 inches.
English walnut-wood and finish 95%-XLNT high condition 1 owner L.C. Smith
Price $2,500.00

*AD#6 Another L.C. Smith 20 Gage Field Grade s/n FAVD11449FI3a14 :) Made 1948 Same information different specifications L.C. Smith field grade featherwt.- 20 gage armor steel barrels-28 inch-extractors-2 3/4 inch chambers-mirror bores-chokes IC-M-1 brass bead-99% bluing-single sighting plane rib-auto safety-splinter forearm-40% case colors-double triggers-14 1/4 inches L.O.P.-buttplate-pistol grip w/ cap-90% checkering¬english walnut-95% wood & finish. Xlnt. Condition-all original to 1 owner.
Price $3,000.00

*AD#7 L.C. Smith Field grade 12gage s/n R352697 Made1916
One if the increasingly hard to find 32inch choked F-F L.C. Smiths These were extremely popular as a waterfowl gun in the flyway areas of the country and also was used by many of the commercial hunters as it performed as well or better than the 10 gage which was being phased out. These were also extremely popular with the skeet, trap and live bird shooters as the L.C. Smiths were noted for their performance in patterning and distance. I've also seen some of these with the stub and Damascus barrels available as special ordered as these were also being phased out. As such these saw more than the normal hard use and were being replaced by the featherwt.guns as shooters tastes changed. Sadly many were neglected and fell into deterioration and were later scrapped during the scrap drives of WW2.
Specifications
L.C. Smith Field Grade 12gage s/n R352697 made1916
32inch armor steel barrels-2-3/4inch chambers-extractors-chokes F F-mirror bores-98 bluing-1 brass bead-automatic safety-2-splinter type forearm-0 case colors-14inch L.O.P.-buttplate-pistol grip w/cap-heel drop2- 7/8inch-comb drop 1-3/4inch-wood and finish98%-mid grade english walnut.
Price $1,000.00

*AD# 8 LC smith 00 grade 16 gage s/n r-35498 made 1910 30 inch armor steel barrels-2 9/16 inch chambers- mirror bores- 98% blueing- chokes F-F, 1 brass bead-extractors-splinter forearm –polished frame&sidelock plates 2 triggers-3 position safety- ½ pistol grip buttplate- 14 1/8 inch L.O.P-heel drop 2 ¾ inch-comb drop 1 5/8 inch-english walnut wood finish-checkering 90% of high condition xlnt these are very scarceand rare in 16 gage, seldom seen with steel barrels price is $2000.00 1 owner

*AD# 9 LC smith 00 grade 12 gage s/n 304428 made 1905 30 inch armor steel barrels-2 ¾ inch chambers-extractors- mirror bores-blueing is 98% -chokes IM-IM-1 brass bead, splinter forearm- 3 position safety-polished frame and sidelock plates-2 triggers- ½ pistol grip- buttplate-14 3/8 inch L.O.P-heel drop 2 ¾ inch –comb drop 1 5/8 inch- checkering is 90% English walnut wood and finish 95% xlnt cond price $1250.00 1owner

*AD#10 LC smith field grade 20 gage s/n fw 51295 made1949 -26 inch armor steel barrels –mirror bores-2 ¾ inch chambers- extractors-chokes IC-F-98% blueing-1 brass bead- automatic safety-splinter forearm-90% case colors 2 triggers-14 ¼ inch L.O.P- butt plate- pistol grip with cap-heel drop 2 ¾ inch- comb drop 1 5/8inch-english walnut wood finish –checkering is 95% this is a all original gun-1owner price $3500.00

*AD#11 A rare find –all original 99+ condition Hunter special like new 12 gage made 1937 s/n 157752- 30 inch barrels- 2 ¾ inch chambers-chokes M-F,-99% of blueing- 1 brass bead –extractors-splinter forearm-auto safety- 99% of case colors-2 triggers-butt plate-pistol grip with cap-99% of checkering-14 ¾ inch L.O.P- heel drop 2 ¾ inch-comb drop 1 5/8-american walnut, wood and finish 99% this is a all original gun really rare,high condition only 5814 made in1937-1945 price $2000.00

*AD#12 another finished rare find in all original 99% condition Fulton like new 16 gage made in 1934-only 9199 made from 1915 to1945 s/n 151902 gun came from original owners estate 28 inch barrels 2 9/16 inch chambers –extractors-mirror bores- chokes IM-F-99% blueing all original-1 brass bead –splinter forearm- auto safety- 99+% of case colors and engraving- 14 3/8 inch L.O.P -2 triggers-butt plate-1/2 pistol grip-heel drop-2 ¾ inch –comb drop 1 5/8 inch- American walnut wood& checkering-wood and finish 99% all original .This is a extremely scarce and rare high cond. 16 gage all original gun price $2000.00

*AD#13 a late arrival from the same estate sale another Hunter special this one a 16 gage s/n 190689 made in 1941 only 1,777 made in 16 gage from 1937-1945. the forearm was lost , so it needs a forearm. It has 28 inch barrels marked belguim steel- mirror bores- 90% of blueing-extractors- 2 9/16 inch chambers- chokes- F-F – 2 brass beads- auto safety- 85 % case colors- 2 triggers-butt plate- 14 ¾ inch L.O.P –pistol grip with cap- heel drop 2 ¾ inch –comb drop 1 5/8 inch –american walnut,90% checkering wood and finish another all original rare Hunter special price $1000.00

*AD#14 Miscelanious LC smith items--- F.W.S barrels 12 gage field made 1947 30 inch 2 ¾ inch chambers 98% blueing-mirror bores price $450.00 Buttstocks—Piemier skt. High grade wood checkered grip & buttstock pistol grip high gloss finish 20 gage price $350.00 Buttstocks—00 grade 12 gage s/n 39038 made 1895=extractor- xlnt- 14 ½ L.O.P recoil pad -1/2 pistol grip English walnut 90% wood and finish price $200.00 Buttstocks—0 grade ,16 gage made 1897 s/n r-33026-extractors-xlnt-14 ½ L.O.P –R.pad-1/2 pistol grip- English walnut- 90% wood and finish price $200.00
BELOW GUN NEEDS BARRELS AND FOREARMS ---LC smith 0 grade 16 gage and 00 12 gage completely refurbished except case color remnants polished out wood English walnut finished 90% price is $600.00 each

As I don't update my guns for sale ads often enough, you may want to check on new arrivals or looking for a particular L.C. Smith. Call and I'll be happy to help also if you wish to sell a L.C. Smith please call.
As I have difficulty in keeping my listings current, frequently some L.C.'s never made the listings as they come and go before I have a chance to list them. As such you may want to check with me occasionally.

Price is $50.00 includes instructions, shipping, and handling Mail payment to Walt Schiessl , 2169 W. Victoria Ave Anaheim,CA 92804

Due to a serious shortage of The L. C. Smith Shotguns Book by LT.COL.WM. Brophy and many requests for accurate information I've put together a brief synopsis of L.C. Smith information for the lovers and collectors of these Beautiful shotguns.
The L.C. Smith's highly acclaimed for their precision and master gunsmithing, The highest of standards in materials workmanship, patented inventions and designs such as the side lock design, the rotary bolt system, the 1st hammerless Side lock gun, The 1st American Automatic Ejectors, the hunter triggers and much, much, more, truly original, not copied, earned the L.C. Smith the Reputations as America's finest made double gun and affectionately named the Good Old Elsie, these L.C. Smith by far surpassed the other American makers and many of so called Europes finest.
The very first were the patented Baker 3 Barrel and double guns by maker L.C. Smith Syracuse N.Y. 1880-1883, the first true L.C. Smiths were the 1st patented side lock hammer guns in 1883 followed by the 1st patented hammerless side lock gun in 1886, a unique feature was the 1883 on hammer guns could be converted to hammerless at a nominal charge, many were. These hammerless guns were made in Syracuse N.Y. until L.C. smith sold the company to John Hunter and Family in 1888. The baker 3 barrel. Guns were in grade quality 1 thru 5 and the double brl. Guns qualities A thru F both were hammer guns the L.C. smith Syracuse guns were AA-A-B-C-D¬E-F Hammer guns. The hammerless qualities 2 thru 7-1886-1888.
A new factory was built in Fulton N.Y. to manufacture the L.C. Smith, hunter arms guns 1888-1890, the 1st hunter arms L.C. Smiths introduced 1890, records prior to 1890 of the L.C. Smith Syracuse guns unfortunately were poorly kept and few have survived the ravages of the time and poor storage, therefore any information is scarce, sketchy and mostly speculative. The Hunter Arms L.C. Smith Fulton N.Y. guns beginning in 1890 were the numbered grades, introduced over a period of years until 1913; the highest grades were the Al, A2, A3, and the Monogram, these were followed by the numbered grades, the highest were the 5-5E, the 4-4E, Pigeon grade, 3-3E, 2-2E, 1-1E, 0-0E, and 00-00E. The E designates automatic ejectors and was optional at extra costs as were single triggers and other options; standard were double triggers and extractors.
In 1913 the grading system was changed to the word designation, the highest grade was the new deluxe grade; highly inlaid with gold inlays and highly engraved. The grade A3 was renamed the premier grade and the monogram was also carried over to the new post 1913 line the monogram was the only grade without a name change in the company's history, also the only numbered grade carried over to the post 1913 line the 5-5E renamed the crown grade. The crown was followed by the eagle grade, trap grade, specialty grade, Olympic grade, skeet special grade, ideal grade and field grade, also the hammer guns were also made in the various grades in both the pre 1913 and post 1913 guns until 1932. There were also derivative guns, these were the Fulton and Fulton special, the hunter special, gladiator series for sears and roebuck and the bolt-action ranger series also for sears. Also the single barrel trap gun 1917 thru 1945 in the various grades and 1946- 1950 by the L.C. Smith Gun co.
Today it is acknowledged that the pre 1913 L.C. Smith's were the absolute finest regardless of the grade, using the highest quality of materials and workmanship and patented innovations, production and material costs were secondary in producing these finest of double guns achieving the reputation as America's finest double gun.
It was claimed that the grade system change was to reduce the number of grades but records indicate that there were 10 numbered grades pre 1913 but 11 word grades 1913-1945, comparing the grades there is a noticeable difference with the pre 1913 grades.
The grade changes were purely economic, as the majority of the guns made were the field and ideal grades the change affected mainly the wood types, the cheaper American walnut grades, lower grades checkering and a simplistic leaf type engraving on the ideal grade as well as the same on the specialty engravings and the eagle grade stippling and engravings, all of these changes did not affect the master gunsmith qualities of the L.C. Smith's and High quality remained in all grades, the highest graded crown, monogram, premier and deluxe were still the finest guns made as these were superb made special order guns.
Financial difficulties finally led to bankruptcy filing in 1917, hunter arms was then purchased by a group of local townspeople for economic stability then sold in 1920 to the Simonds family of Fitchburg Mass. And was run by Mr. S.J. Giles of Simons Saw and Steel who later became the owner and president of hunter arms co. In 1939 due to ill health and financial problems he put the company up for sale but WWII postponed the inevitable but went bankrupt in 1945. The Marlin Co. of New Haven Conn. bought it and promptly renamed it the L.C. Smith Gun Co. Fulton N.Y. and resumed production Nov 26, 1945, the High graded guns were discontinued except the crown grade ,48 were made 1946-1950, emphasis was on the field and ideal grades, these are identified by the letter in front of the S/N, S-1 thru S¬56, 800 Nov 26, 1945-June 1950. Also SIN 202968-206909 that was hunter arms in production.
The collapse of the factory floor Jan 16, 1949 led to the closure of the Fulton N.Y. L.C. Smith Factory in June 1950 all machinery ect. was moved to the Marlin Factory at New Haven Conn. And discontinued until 1968 when Marlin brought back the L.C. Smith, it was a poor shadow of the original L.C. Smith. In the opinion of many it was poorly made and highly over priced and only available in the field grade and died a quick death in 1971, the S/N were 56, 801 to 59, 152 and 100,000 to 100,188 total 2539 guns. As I stated in the beginning this is a brief but minuscule part of the L.C. Smith story, much much more remains as this only scratches the surface but I hope it will help, as there is so much inaccurate information out there. More data on history, production dates, grades ser #'s. Is available thru me at no charge, this is a free service, as I do not have a computer, no emails, or no faxes as I do not have a fax machine. Mail will be answered only with a stamped self-addressed envelope enclosed. Phone calls within a reasonable time frame (California time 8AM-6PM). As I am a retired person I will answer calls if I'm home, if not you may leave a message, but call back again.
Please see the web page for L.C. Smith's for sale and additional services and information.
Thank You.
The L.C. Smith Man,
Walt Schiessl

Addendum to the L.C. Smith Web page by Walt Schiessl
In the years of the double gun makers, many mistakes and errors were made by lack of foresight and poor judgment, no doubt to the high probability that this is why they are just memories today. I'm sure there were many other reasons other than discussed here. The L.C. Smith was the most well known but the problems were shared by all makers contributing to the scarcity and rarity of these guns today. The most asked question today is why are the high and mid graded guns so damn scarce and rare in the 20 gage 16 gage and 410 gages and so some extent the 12 gage as well? In high pristine condition these are very seldom seen and extremely rare and expensive, read on and some of these questions will be answered.
Beginning with the 16 gage, it was considered a competition gage against foreign imports as during these early years the imports were 16 gage guns thought by foreign makers to compete with the 12 gage American made guns, it never happened and the 16 gage never achieved popularity resulting in extremely low production. The 20 gage guns were inappropriately ridiculed and labeled as sissy guns for women and kids, sneered at by the shooters and hunters it was very low priority in advertising, promotion and production. Other factors one of which was 20 and 16 gage ammo, the munitions makers deemed these two gages too low in volume to justify production, therefore they imported foreign made ammo and relabeled it as theirs, foreign made ammo was also sold independently, generally it was poor quality poor performance and very expensive and hard to find. Much of it also was black powdered ammo, this foreign made ammo both black powder and smokeless was a persistent problem for 20 + 16 gage users throughout the entire era 1890-1950. Scarcity of 20-gage ammo was a real problem, WWI, the depression years and WWII years further eroded sales and demand coupled with the 410 gage introduced in 1925, this was now the kids gage guns and again caused another drop in sales as the sissy gun stigma was firmly attached now to the 20 gage guns and coupled with ammo shortages and extremely pricy ammo even fewer were sold particularly in the high and mid grade guns. Lack of foresight, financial errors, poor management, other types of shotguns and many other reasons caused the makers of the fine double guns to close their doors forever. Hunter arms L.C. Smith was one, bankruptcy in April 1945, reborn Nov. 26, by the marlin co. died again in 1949 when the factory floor collapsed and marlin decided not to rebuild, closed mid 1950. Reborn again in 1968 and died finally in 1971, all led to the extreme scarcity today of these high and midgrade 20, 16, +410 gage guns which are in extremely high demand. The pre 1913 20 + 16 gage are the most sought after as these were the fewest in numbers made in high and midgrade guns, this also pertains to the post 1913 high and mid grade to a degree as small amounts more were made in this period 1913-1950 and the longer years of production. The highest grades of
both periods are beyond rare, the midgrade special ordered guns also of both periods are rapidly approaching the same status as many were on a close par with these high grades due to the special order options and features. These were not the off the shelf midgrades, (above 0 +00 and field) with extractors, double triggers, standard woods, engravings ect., but options loaded special ordered guns, due to the many problems of the times very few of these were produced and are now highly sought after as one of a kind very rare special guns, most all remain in pristine or very high condition and are rarely seen and expensive. Hopefully this gives some insight to the scarcity of the 20-16 and 410 and some high graded 12 gages and special ordered 12 gage guns also.
I'm always happy to answer your L.C. Smith questions, now I would ask a question, do you wish for me to continue this occasional data on my web page? If so, let me know. Thanks again, happy hunting

Best Regards,

Walt Schiessl
The L.C. Smith Man